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Post by Tom Mulgrew on Feb 21, 2007 3:54:47 GMT -5
In case you want a look at what I've been working on: www.basic4gl.net/unofficial/basic4games_early_development.zipBe warned that it's quite buggy, and not very finished (there are lots of bits missing). I'm also not completely sold on the "Basic4Games" name (consider it a working title).. I'm kinda warming up to "B4gel" lately.. Anyway, the basic idea is to take Basic4GL and move all the libraries into plugins, so that you can choose whether you want to include sound, networking, OpenGL etc into your program. It also means that you can use graphics systems other than OpenGL, but not yet because I haven't implemented any other display window plugins except for a simple text console. I do plan to have some SDL based 2D graphics so that you can write text/sprite programs that don't need OpenGL, and will probably throw in some more standard 2D drawing commands as well. I'm taking the opportunity to fix a few earlier Basic4GL design decisions. This means that it won't be completely compatible with Basic4GL, but should still be close enough that you can convert a Basic4GL program over without too much hassle. An example of an incompatibility is that it uses the traditional "print" syntax (no more "printr" anywhere). There are also a few other functions that work slightly differently due to the reliance on plugins. I'm interested to hear what people think. Also, if you can get it to crash consistently, and provide me with steps so that I can reproduce the crash, it would be quite helpful. (By "consistently" I mean every time... I can make it crash sometimes, but it seems kinda random, so it's hard to track down..) Anyway, have a play around if you want... Cheers, -Tom
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Post by hartnell on Feb 21, 2007 5:18:39 GMT -5
Downloaded. I just noticed something. Why does the Functions and Constants list say "GLBasic" rather than "Basic4GL"? -hartnell
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Post by davy on Feb 21, 2007 11:22:16 GMT -5
I think it's great... People can now write libraries for things like software rendered graphics (like an SDL or Allegro library). People could write a game engine wrapper and use some game engine in BASIC.
Hey Tom, have you been able to compile any of it on Linux yet?
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Post by Tom Mulgrew on Feb 21, 2007 17:23:57 GMT -5
Downloaded. I just noticed something. Why does the Functions and Constants list say "GLBasic" rather than "Basic4GL"? -hartnell Yep, I was originally going to call it "GLBasic". However I found out early in the project that the name had already been taken ( www.glbasic.com), so I changed it. I guess that dialog box is one of the places I missed. (I'm a bit surprised no-one's noticed it before actually...) -Tom
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Post by Supermonkey on Feb 21, 2007 18:04:27 GMT -5
If its just console based then it should work without many hitches. It only took me 6 hours to port basic4gl and that was because I had never used makefiles before (actually the .dll loading may not work just thinking about it).
P.S. Isn't this project on sourceforge?
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Post by Tom Mulgrew on Feb 21, 2007 20:01:45 GMT -5
Yeah, I used your changes as a basis to get the new version compiling under Linux. The main part compiles and runs alright, but I still need to get the plugin loading code sorted out. (And without the plugins, there's not much to see...).
And yep.. It's officially an Open Source project hosted on source-forge. I'm using the zlib/libpng license, which is pretty permissive.
-Tom
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Post by James :) (aka Madcow) on Apr 25, 2007 12:07:53 GMT -5
Why don't you call it Basic4gl NXT as it is next genaration of basic4gl. instead of basic4games . then when you release it call it what you want.
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Post by johnwedd on Jul 4, 2007 21:20:40 GMT -5
i'd call it "GLoB" openGL on BASIC!
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Post by karno7 on Jul 7, 2007 6:53:55 GMT -5
Glob sounds good! I'd code in Glob.
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Post by johnwedd on Jul 7, 2007 21:30:46 GMT -5
lol, yeah, have the IDE called 'Ooze'
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Post by STT on Jul 23, 2007 4:22:38 GMT -5
lol
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Post by xteraco on Jul 29, 2007 23:27:54 GMT -5
Wow, pretty hard news. I've been happy with the developments of b4gl. I'm gonna be a straight shooter here, its an awesome idea. BUT. A few questions come to mind.
For instance, the plugin functionality hasnt been taken full advantage of as far as I can see. That kind (as in the modular kind) of functionality has already been built in. And from this change what would we get, would we see drastically smaller exe's? Would we see faster code execution when all systems are included? If not, I think its a horrible idea.
Another thing to consider is, are you going to take it from a Virtual machine to a truely compiled language? If not, I still say nay.
I really hate to be all gloom and doom, but I enjoy that all the systems are built in. Its kind of fun. If I were developing b4gl, and I was at the point where I couldnt see what changes to make, I'd look into keeping the same syntax (things wont break with updates) and make the thing compiled, truely.....
Anyways, I'm partly saying this because I've started a major project, and I'm already about 2000 lines in, and would hate to see the next update break everything, and I think this is the kind of feedback that should fuel your design decisions. Another reason I'm saying this is, its the current design that brings me back again and again, that pulls me away from other (basic language) alternatives. I'm primarily a c++ coder, but when I turn to basic, its b4gl, and thats because I like the current design.
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Post by Supermonkey on Jul 30, 2007 7:08:37 GMT -5
You say that like its a small job and would not break compatibility either, but in truth it could and the fact that development time would be ridiculously increased and it would limit what other people could do to contribute to the project. Theres also no reason why all of the currently basic4gl modules couldn't be converted to plugins for basic4games then there would be no compatibility issues. From the sounds of it basic4games is at the moment the basic4gl compiler with all the functions stripped out (sort of like the simple compiler example in the 2.33 source code but with some extra language features?) If thats true there will be few changes to the syntax, the only changes will be from current developments in basic4gl (such as possible support for functions).
All in all I think its a good idea if the old gl modules are still incorporated into the system (as plugins), that way if no-one really creates any plugins then no functionality is lost and I think having a bare bones system to code plugins for is nicer than having to work with the current openGL setup.
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Post by xteraco on Jul 30, 2007 12:39:11 GMT -5
Uncalled for man, I'm not trying to de-validate other people's opinions. I didnt say small job or anything like that, I understand a lot more about whats involved than you think.
To me this post is about telling Tom all of our opinions, not arguing about who's is right or wrong.
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Post by Supermonkey on Jul 30, 2007 13:37:01 GMT -5
How am I invalidating your opinion? I'm doing exactly what you are and putting my opinion in. I quoted part of your post because I diagreed with it, last time I checked that was perfectly fine. I'm certainly not arguing, I'm discussing the topic, on a discussion forum.... Infact, just to 'Invalidate' some more opinions: I think the whole gl thing should be dropped because the language will no longer be openGL based, I hope that doesn't hurt your feelings too much. c'mon xteraco, its just a forum have fun! Jon [edit] To clarify, the way I like to post on threads (yes I have a set method) is to quote peoples points and comment on them. Thats not meant to be a personal attack, thats just how I make best use of a discussion. If I make a comment about something you've said, don't be offended it means I think you've brought up a point which I'd like to discuss (Maybe I should make this a disclaimer ;D)
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